My local pub won't give the police CCTV footage of a theft!?

Question

My local pub has CCTV cameras installed as a part of their licence. My bag was stolen from the pub and the thiefs image should be on the footage for that night. The police have twice asked the pub for the footage but they have not been given it. Are there any English laws that can be used to force the pub to give the police the footage?

Answer 1

Yes, the police will apply to a judge or magistrate for a warrant and that means the police can take the cctv whether the pubs wants to give it or not.

The pub must have a very good reason to not give it because they are risking losing their licence by not cooperating.

Have they given you a reason why they wont give it to them?

Answer 2

It sounds to me like the pub has just messed up. They probably weren't using the CCTV on the night in question, or it may not have recorded it for whatever reason. I used to work in a petrol station and we had a CCTV system and there was nothing so sure that if ever you wanted it for something it wouldn't be there, either the tapes were taped over or it just hadn't been turn on, the tape was damaged or any number of other reasons. It may also be that the footage just didn't get captured: if there's say 8 cameras then the frames from each camera would be a good 4 seconds apart and so may just not be on there any way.



It could be more sinister, as you say and they know who has done this. It may be that this person spends more money in there than you, or works there, or is likely to get violent (or get other people to cause trouble) if there is a successful prosecution (and let's face it, they wouldn't go to jail for it). It stinks I know but it's possible.

Answer 3

I sell CCTV cameras to pubs and yes the police can legally take a COPY of the CCTV evidence, the only problem is that if it is a digital recording the police have to get it downloaded and most police stations don't have the software to watch the download but you can download it to a tape and watch it in the usual way or get a laptop and connect to the CCTV hard drive and download it but it has to be a laptop with a large memory. My husband is a security guard and he confirms that the police can get and use the evidence if a crime has been committed.

Answer 4

most pubs have cctv fitted as a condition of the licence and also in the conditions of the licence is the proviso that the coverage be available to the police so if the pub refuses to allow the police to see the incident the pub is in breach of it licence.

I may add that not all pubs are subject to this proviso only some who have suffered from bad reports in the past.

even so the pub cannot refuse to allow the police to view the footage in the pub itself they dont have to give the police the tapes, they only have to give the tapes if a incident as been recorded, also remember the tapes are not able to be used in court as evidence of guilt other evidence as to be present apart from the cctv the cctv cannot be used alone to convict no one in a british court



CLIVE H you have not got a clue what you are on about you cannot do this you cannot do that, YOUR contribution to this post is about as much use as the pigeon **** on nelsons head. I WILL tell you your knowledge of british law is minimal

full of useless links go back to school and refresh



to peter james the question never asked for information on the data protection act. if they wont give it the police they certainly wont give it to someone for fee and to be perfectly

legal it only applies to images held on computer not on vhs or similar

Answer 5

Regardless of a court order or getting it another way. Why would the pub with hold it? A pub usually cooperates with the police because it's good later to be on their good side. They would want patrons to know that they of course run a safe and secure establishment.



I would see if there have been similar complaints in the past. But are they worried that an employee did it or a regular? Something does not add up as what other than that could be a downside......... they have to replace your money? There isn't one.

Answer 6

Not knowing exactly what the laws are in England I can't speculate however, the old English rules of law are what is based on newer laws, then known as "Common" law. I would think that the authorities could get a court order for the tape. Being rather suspicious, I'm thinking it was a "Pub" employee and the pub knows it and that is why they don't want to turn the tape over. I also suspect that if a court order is served upon the pub. you will most likely find that the tape is erased. I'd find another pub to go to...

Answer 7

I cant believe that so many people have answered this post with no obvious knowledge of the law?? Its bad enough that the Police are not familiar with the Data protection rules but the fact that so many of you reply giving incorrect and misleading information on a subject you have little or no knowledge is astounding! Well done Dave P the CCTV system comes under the Data Protection act and therefore should be checked to be fully working before the establishment can be opened, for a small fee a copy of the recordings shall be made available to whoever has a legitimate requirement. More information is available at www.ico.gov.uk

Peter

Answer 8

CCTV systems are now covered by Data Protection act. Warning signs are displayed on the protected area giving a name and phone number of the scheme controller.



You are then entitled to have a copy of your images from the CCTV in exchange for a charge to cover their costs.



The pub however may not be registered and the law (as always) is very vague if they have to be. For example a small retailer with only a few cameras are now exempt, but define a small retailer!



Your local paper sounds the best option if data protection signs are not displayed.

Answer 9

Sorry but the CCTV footage taken in your pub is the property of the pub owner[s] and not public property, as far as I know.



White Rose • CCTV is not your friendYour word against someone elses is inconclusive, your word against CCTV footage? I wouldn't give you any chance at all in front of a jury. ...

http://www.whiterose.samizdata.net/archives/004612.html



There is no CCTV footage... then again, here is the CCTV footage ...Maybe not the London Underground CCTV footage, but maybe footage from the bus ..... Self defence & security, Self ownership, Sexuality, Slogans/quotations ...

http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/2005/08/there_is_no_cctv_footage_then.html



[PDF] How CCTV systems are used File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML

differ in ownership, management and technology. Also,. additional crime reduction measures and ... showing CCTV footage to witnesses for identification, and ...

http://www.parliament.uk/post/pn175.pdf





My Notes: I have never been entirely sure what CCTV footage is supposed to be for. The first CCTV cameras were being installed in shops and supermarkets here in London back in the late 1960s. There were even signs put up reading "Smile, your'e on TV".



So, what exactly is the point of CCTV if following the theft of a handback or other personal item[s] in a pub, you then cannot demand copy of the footage as evidence or to find the ID of the thief.



Contact your local branch of Citizen's Advice Bureau [CAB] and see if they can help. You may also contact your MP and see what he/she can do as well.



This link will take you to CAB homepage - you can click through from there to find your local branch.



Citizens Advice Bureau - Every Citizens Advice Bureau is a registered charity reliant on trained volunteers and ... Visit http://www.adviceguide.org.uk



Edit: Logic316 above is correct. I've got a dummy CCTV camera at the front of my house. It even has a winking red light and looks realistic and pans around whenever anyone enters my front drive. It is a cheap deterant.

Answer 10

possibly the French police have investigated the 'sighting' and characteristic completely satisfied themselves that the youngster interior the CCTV pictures replaced into no longer Madeleine. possibly, having primary that the youngster interior the pictures replaced into no longer Madeleine, they have fairly properly secure the identification and privateness of whoever it actual replaced into, with the aid of no longer freeing the CCTV into the first public area, the place it would have unavoidably ended up being splashed around the united kingdom tabloids alongside extra excitable headlines approximately yet another 'sighting' i actual think of the French police have acted very responsibly right here. whether, if that they had felt the could desire to share the pictures with the different social gathering, it could have been extra appropriate for them to bypass it to the investigating government in Portugal, fairly than the McCanns and their distracting, dissembling media gadget.

Answer 11

Data protection doesn't come into this. It's the Police asking for the download not a member of the Public.

Which pub was this, so I know to avoid it?

Answer 12

the police can go to the court and get a warrant to have the tape of that night confescated.



It sounds like someone who works at the pub is in on it since the pub doesn't want to give it up.

Answer 13

I would think that the police can get a court order to obtain the tape.

Seems strange to me that a publican would refuse a request from the police, considering that they have to rely on the police for help in a disturbance, plus the licensing laws.

Answer 14

It's possible that the CCTV system just doesn't work, or that some or all of their cameras might even be fake. Many businesses like to install realistic dummy cameras as a cost-cutting measure, hoping the deterrent effect will be sufficient.

Answer 15

Court order. Or you could just contact your local newspaper as I feel sure the pub would not want bad publicity.

Answer 16

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Answer 17

Perhaps u can ask help from the police .If case is genuine sure the police is suppose to help out

Answer 18

1

Answer 19

Sue the pub to court yourself.

Answer 20

They can get a court order to hand over the tapes. Why would they refuse?

Answer 21

if the pub is with holding evidance then they are breaking a tleast three laws, breach of the peach, with holding evidance, perverting the course of justice and maybe also refusing to cooparate with the police (that is an offence itself).

Answer 22

a judge will order them to turn over the tape.

----retired texas deputy sheriff----